[LON-CAPA-users] Importing library routines
Edwin Kashy
lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org
Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:11:33 -0400
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Robert,
Bad idea...in my opinion.
One of the attraction of LON-CAPA was that you could get a wrong answer
and still get full credit when you succeed in a solution.
Student are in school to learn, and making mistakes is part of that
process. If you expect them to get it right on the first try, why are
they taking your class and not a more advanced class? Homework is part
of the process of learning and needs to be encouraged, a formative type
of assessment. Exams take care of the 1 try situation.
Ed Kashy
Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu wrote:
> Last year I limited to 1 attempt per problem. The students wanted some
> way to determine what the actual answer was, so this year I will see
> what happens allowing 4 tries.
>
> However, my scoring system only gives them credit for problems they
> answer correctly on the first try. Incorrect answers, or correct
> answers after 3 or more tries result in negative scores, so there is
> incentive to get it right the first time. Also, unanswered questions
> on a sheet where at least one problem has been attempted yield large
> negative values, so students can't cherry pick the easy questions.
>
> brew
> -----lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org wrote: -----
>
> To: <lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org>
> From: "Robley Light" <rlight@chemmail.chem.fsu.edu>
> Sent by: lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org
> Date: 08/29/2006 04:35PM
> Subject: RE: [LON-CAPA-users] Importing library routines
>
> An interesting way to group problems. Thanks for making the code
> available so others can see how you do this.
>
> Since each question is a separate part, I presume you limit the
> tries to 1 per part?
>
> Robley Light
>
> *************************************************************
> Robley J. Light Professor of Chemistry and
> Biochemistry
> Department of Chemistry Phone: (850) 644-3844
> and Biochemistry Email: rlight@chem.fsu.edu
> Florida State University Fax: (850) 644-8281
> Tallahassee, FL 32306-4390 Home Page:
> http://www.chem.fsu.edu/editors/rlight
> <http://www.chem.fsu.edu/editors/rlight>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org
> [mailto:lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu
> *Sent: * Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:54 PM
> *To: * lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org
> *Subject: * Re: [LON-CAPA-users] Importing library routines
>
> My setup constructs a randomized set of problems for students.
> It does a construct like
> <part><import> prob7.library </import></part>
> <part><import> prob5.library </import></part>
> <part><import> prob72.library </import></part>
> <part><import> prob14.library </import></part>
> <part><import> prob23.library </import></part>
> <part><import> prob53.library </import></part>
> <part><import> prob11.library </import></part>
> where each of 15 problem numbers is generated by a piece of code.
>
> Using problems instead of the library did not work; I think it
> was because I cannot import problems, they have to be
> libraries. I have tried to make all my code available to
> everyone; you can look at
>
> brewington/Chemistry/RegentsReview/FinalMaster.problem
>
> to see how it works.
>
> I can then set up a series of problem sheets (say, 50 of
> them). Each student then sees 50 sheets of 15 problems each,
> where the problems have been randomly selected from the main
> pool of several hundred problems. Each student sees different
> problems with different randomizations.
>
> It works pretty well, although it unfortunately does not allow
> statistics on the problems. I guess problems are indexed by
> their positions on sequences, not by an actual problem or part
> id.
>
> Last spring I had to have Guy manually move/rename stuff,
> partly due to my learning curve and partly because I do not
> have the access to do these operations. I am reluctant to keep
> bugging him for my problem manipulations. He has lots of
> serious stuff to do. On the other hand, I don't know if I have
> enough time in the day to do this through the web interface...
> Only a few days now until school starts!
>
> I expect to add more problems to the pool twice a year, a
> couple of hundred each time. It is very awkward not having the
> ability to do mass deletes, moves, renames, and so on.
> Apparently people running their own servers have root access,
> so they routinely go in and do things with shell scripts. I
> have the knowledge & experience to do this, but do not have
> that access since I am hosted on the educog machine. In
> addition, I am perhaps unusual in my structure and overall
> number of problems.
>
> Thanks,
> brew
> -----lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org wrote: -----
>
> To: lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org
> From: Gerd Kortemeyer <korte@lite.msu.edu>
> Sent by: lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org
> Date: 08/29/2006 10:46AM
> Subject: Re: [LON-CAPA-users] Importing library routines
>
> Hi Brew,
>
> On Aug 29, 2006, at 10:38 AM,
> Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu wrote:
>
> > I am importing a couple of hundred questions into LonCapa.
> >
> > For my system, I need these to come in as libraries, not
> as
> > problems. Currently, I have to do several thousand mouse
> clicks to
> > 1) rename each file to library, and 2) replace the
> <problem> tags
> > with <library>. I just did 50 questions, and it took 600
> mouse
> > clicks and 250 screen loads just to rename the files.
>
> I am not sure ... why "library"?
>
> - Gerd.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LON-CAPA-users mailing list
> LON-CAPA-users@mail.lon-capa.org
> http://mail.lon-capa.org/mailman/listinfo/lon-capa-users
> <http://mail.lon-capa.org/mailman/listinfo/lon-capa-users>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ LON-CAPA-users
> mailing list LON-CAPA-users@mail.lon-capa.org
> http://mail.lon-capa.org/mailman/listinfo/lon-capa-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________ LON-CAPA-users mailing
> list LON-CAPA-users@mail.lon-capa.org
> http://mail.lon-capa.org/mailman/listinfo/lon-capa-users
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Robert, <br>
Bad idea...in my opinion. <br>
One of the attraction of LON-CAPA was that you could get a wrong
answer and still get full credit when you succeed in a solution.<br>
Student are in school to learn, and making mistakes is part of that
process. If you expect them to get it right on the first try, why are
they taking your class and not a more advanced class? Homework is part
of the process of learning and needs to be encouraged, a formative type
of assessment. Exams take care of the 1 try situation.<br>
Ed Kashy<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu">Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="midOF6D086213.79058CEC-ON852571DA.005B8756-852571DA.005B8759@notes.monroe.edu"
type="cite">
<div>Last year I limited to 1 attempt per problem. The students
wanted some way to determine what the actual answer was, so this year I
will see what happens allowing 4 tries. <br>
<br>
However, my scoring system only gives them credit for problems they
answer correctly on the first try. Incorrect answers, or correct
answers after 3 or more tries result in negative scores, so there is
incentive to get it right the first time. Also, unanswered questions on
a sheet where at least one problem has been attempted yield large
negative values, so students can't cherry pick the easy questions.<br>
<br>
brew<br>
</div>
<font color="#990099">-----lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org
wrote: -----<br>
<br>
</font>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">To:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org"><lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org></a><br>
From: "Robley Light" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rlight@chemmail.chem.fsu.edu"><rlight@chemmail.chem.fsu.edu></a><br>
Sent by: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org">lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org</a><br>
Date: 08/29/2006 04:35PM<br>
Subject: RE: [LON-CAPA-users] Importing library routines<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="812133619-29082006"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">An interesting way to group
problems. Thanks for making the code available so others can see how
you do this.
</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="812133619-29082006"></span>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="812133619-29082006"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Since each question is a
separate part, I presume you limit the tries to 1 per part?
</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="812133619-29082006"></span>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="812133619-29082006"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Robley Light
</font></span></div>
<p align="left"><font size="2">*************************************************************<br>
Robley J. Light Professor of Chemistry and
Biochemistry<br>
Department of Chemistry Phone: (850) 644-3844<br>
and Biochemistry Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rlight@chem.fsu.edu">rlight@chem.fsu.edu</a> <br>
Florida State University Fax: (850) 644-8281<br>
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4390 Home Page: <a
href="http://www.chem.fsu.edu/editors/rlight" target="_blank">http://www.chem.fsu.edu/editors/rlight
</a> <br>
</font></p>
<div>
</div>
<br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"
lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:
</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org">lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org">mailto:lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu">Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu</a><br>
<b>Sent:
</b> Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:54 PM<br>
<b>To:
</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org">lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:
</b> Re: [LON-CAPA-users] Importing library routines<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<font face="Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"
size="2">
<div>My setup constructs a randomized set of problems for
students. It does a construct like
</div>
<div> <part><import> prob7.library
</import></part><br>
<part><import> prob5.library
</import></part><br>
<part><import> prob72.library
</import></part><br>
<part><import> prob14.library
</import></part><br>
<part><import> prob23.library
</import></part><br>
<part><import> prob53.library
</import></part><br>
<part><import> prob11.library
</import></part><br>
</div>
<div>where each of 15 problem numbers is generated by a piece of
code.
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>Using problems instead of the library did not work; I think
it was because I cannot import problems, they have to be libraries. I
have tried to make all my code available to everyone; you can look at </div>
<div>
</div>
<div>brewington/Chemistry/RegentsReview/FinalMaster.problem
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>to see how it works. </div>
<div>
</div>
<div>I can then set up a series of problem sheets (say, 50 of
them). Each student then sees 50 sheets of 15 problems each, where the
problems have been randomly selected from the main pool of several
hundred problems. Each student sees different problems with different
randomizations.
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>It works pretty well, although it unfortunately does not
allow statistics on the problems. I guess problems are indexed by their
positions on sequences, not by an actual problem or part id. </div>
<div>
</div>
<div>Last spring I had to have Guy manually move/rename stuff,
partly due to my learning curve and partly because I do not have the
access to do these operations. I am reluctant to keep bugging him for
my problem manipulations. He has lots of serious stuff to do. On the
other hand, I don't know if I have enough time in the day to do this
through the web interface... Only a few days now until school starts!
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>I expect to add more problems to the pool twice a year, a
couple of hundred each time. It is very awkward not having the ability
to do mass deletes, moves, renames, and so on.
Apparently people running their own servers have root access, so
they routinely go in and do things with shell scripts. I have the
knowledge & experience to do this, but do not have that access
since I am hosted on the educog machine. In addition, I am perhaps
unusual in my structure and overall number of problems. </div>
<div>
</div>
<div>Thanks,
</div>
<div>brew
</div>
<font color="#990099">-----lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org
wrote: -----<br>
<br>
</font>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">To:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org">lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org</a><br>
From: Gerd Kortemeyer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:korte@lite.msu.edu"><korte@lite.msu.edu></a><br>
Sent by: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org">lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org</a><br>
Date: 08/29/2006 10:46AM<br>
Subject: Re: [LON-CAPA-users] Importing library routines<br>
<br>
<font face="Default Monospace,Courier New,Courier,monospace"
size="2">Hi Brew,<br>
<br>
On Aug 29, 2006, at 10:38 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu">Robert_Brewington@er.monroe.edu</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I am importing a couple of hundred questions into LonCapa.<br>
><br>
> For my system, I need these to come in as libraries, not as <br>
> problems. Currently, I have to do several thousand mouse clicks to
<br>
> 1) rename each file to library, and 2) replace the <problem>
tags <br>
> with <library>. I just did 50 questions, and it took 600
mouse <br>
> clicks and 250 screen loads just to rename the files.<br>
<br>
I am not sure ... why "library"?<br>
<br>
- Gerd.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
LON-CAPA-users mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LON-CAPA-users@mail.lon-capa.org">LON-CAPA-users@mail.lon-capa.org</a><br>
<a
href="http://mail.lon-capa.org/mailman/listinfo/lon-capa-users"
target="blank">http://mail.lon-capa.org/mailman/listinfo/lon-capa-users
</a><br>
</font></blockquote>
<br>
</font>_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
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