[LON-CAPA-users] Open date versus Contentopen?
lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org
lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org
Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:18:10 -0400
<div>Yeah, I was going to hide the whole tree.<br><br>Thanks,<br>brew<br></=
div><font color=3D"#990099">-----lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org wro=
te: -----<br><br></font><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, =
0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-righ=
t: 0px;">To: lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org<br>From: Todd Ruskell <tru=
skell@mines.edu><br>Sent by: lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org<br>D=
ate: 06/03/2008 12:09PM<br>Subject: Re: [LON-CAPA-users] Open date versus C=
ontentopen?<br><br><font face=3D"Courier New,Courier,monospace" size=3D"3">=
Yeah, for that many pages you're probably best off setting the "default<br>=
for course" parameters, which do propagate through the tree. Your oth=
er<br>option would be to "hide" resources and reveal them as the course goe=
s<br>on. Not automatic, but beats spending 6 hours setting parameters=
.<br>Hiding a folder also propagates down through the rest of the tree, so<=
br>that is pretty efficient. Maybe some combination of the two would =
work?<br><br>Todd<br><br>Robert=5FBrewington@er.monroe.edu wrote:<br>> I=
tried what you say - sure enough, if I look at the PPRM for the<br>> pr=
oblem within the page ("icons "scattered" throughout), I get the<br>> de=
sired Open date and it seems to work. How bizarre that parameters do<br>>=
; not propagate through the tree.<br>> <br>> Since they don't propaga=
te, wow! an awful lot of work to set open dates<br>> on a couple of hund=
red problems. I timed setting a few; in the end, I<br>> don't think I ha=
ve the 6 hours it looks like it will take to set them all.<br>> <br>>=
brew<br>> -----lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org wrote: -----<br>&=
gt; <br>> To: lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org<br>> &nb=
sp; From: Todd Ruskell <truskell@mines.edu><br>> &nb=
sp; Sent by: lon-capa-users-admin@mail.lon-capa.org<br>> D=
ate: 06/02/2008 11:24PM<br>> Subject: Re: [LON-CAPA-users]=
Open date versus Contentopen?<br>> <br>> Brew,<br>>=
<br>> Using pages does have some interesting effects. &nb=
sp;I think they're<br>> starting to get used more often no=
w, but for a while it seemed many<br>> things were not wel=
l optimized for pages, but I believe many of them<br>> hav=
e gotten ironed out.<br>> <br>> But directly to your is=
sue: I ran into this a lot last summer when<br>> try=
ing to work with "Pages". I think everything below is still the<br>&g=
t; case, but I'm sure someone like Gerd or Stuart will correc=
t me if I'm<br>> wrong. From a LON-CAPA system stand=
point, a "Page" is not any different<br>> than a "folder" =
or a "sequence" except that everything appears on one<br>> =
concatenated html page. Also, for better or for worse, LON-CAPA has<=
br>> very limited cascading of parameters down through sub=
-folders. What<br>> does this mean? Assume the=
following course structure:<br>> <br>> Folder 1<br>>=
; Page 1.1<br>> Problem 1=
.1.1<br>> Problem 1.1.2<br>> =
Page 1.2<br>> Problem 1.2.1<br>> &n=
bsp; Problem 1.2.2<br>> Problem =
1.1<br>> Problem 1.2<br>> <br>> =
If you set parameters like open/close/due dates on the enclosing folder<br>=
> of "Folder 1", say by viewing the parameters of "Problem=
1.1" or with<br>> the "Overview" mode, the only resources=
affected will be "Problem 1.1"<br>> and "Problem 1.2". &n=
bsp;The parameters will *not* cascade further down<br>> th=
e tree.<br>> <br>> If you view, for example "Problem 1.=
1.1", and use PPRM to set<br>> open/close/due dates for th=
e enclosing folder, the enclosing folder is<br>> actually =
"Page 1.1", *not* "Folder 1". I for one would very much like<br>> =
to see the automatic cascading of parameters down through all=
<br>> sub-folders/pages, but this is apparently a bit chal=
lenging. First, it<br>> could make for an even uglie=
r PPRM page, but I suspect it has something<br>> to do wit=
h not knowing for sure just how many levels may be present in<br>>  =
; any part of the tree. At any rate, it just doesn't happen. &=
nbsp;You should,<br>> however, be able to use the overview=
mode to set the parameters for each<br>> "Page" in a slig=
htly more efficient manner.<br>> <br>> <editorial co=
mment><br>> The current behavior of parameter cascading=
has the undesired side<br>> effect of making Pages a much=
less useful tool. Although arguably quite<br>> nice=
from a presentation standpoint, the management standpoint leaves a<br>>=
lot to be desired. As a result, we ended up not using =
pages nearly as<br>> much as I'd like, but instead resorte=
d to multi-part problems.<br>> </editorial comment><=
br>> <br>> One last item. When looking at a "Page=
" you've got to be very careful<br>> which resource you ar=
e setting the parameters of. It sounds like you're<br>> &nb=
sp; using the remote control. In this case, when you view a "Page", t=
he<br>> PPRM button brings up the parameters for the "Page=
" as a whole, not a<br>> particular resource within the "P=
age". That is why you get "Content<br>> Opening Date=
" rather than "Problem Opening Date". If you do not use the<br>> &=
nbsp; Remote Control, you get the same effect by clicking on the "Se=
t<br>> Parameters" icon at the very top of the page.  =
;If you want to look at<br>> the parameters for a particul=
ar resource within the page, you need to<br>> use the "Set=
Parameter" links that appear scattered throughout the<br>>  =
; "Page". They're actually not scattered, but appear at the top of ea=
ch<br>> resource. If you use the embedded link, you =
can get the parameters for<br>> one of your embedded probl=
ems, including Open/Due Dates.<br>> <br>> Hope that hel=
ps,<br>> <br>> Todd<br>> <br>> Robe=
rt=5FBrewington@er.monroe.edu wrote:<br>> > Yes, I do h=
ave a couple of "dummy" students so I can make sure<br>> w=
hat they<br>> > see.<br>> ><br>>=
> I have set both the Open Date and Content Open date for=
the<br>> future: June<br>> > 6, 2008 =
- today is Jun 2. Due date is set for Jun 18 or so. When I log<br>> &nbs=
p; > in as the student, it shows the problems as open, the studen=
t can look<br>> > at the problem and answer it. The due=
date looks correct.<br>> ><br>> > =
Interesting idea, that contentopen applies to non-problem things (like<br>&=
gt; > pdf files). However, I see this parameter on my prob=
lem, not a<br>> different<br>> > file =
type. So, I still don't know what ContentOpen means.<br>> =
><br>> > Maybe my use of pages (rather than sequence=
s) does something odd?<br>> I have<br>> &=
gt; a folder containing a bunch of "pages" rather than sequences (the icon<=
br>> > is a puzzle piece). Each page contains two probl=
ems (question mark<br>> > icons). I view the problem, a=
nd select PPRM (set parameters for this<br>> > resource=
) which shows the colored grid of parameters and their<br>>  =
; settings.<br>> > Folder: Final Review<br>> &=
nbsp; > Page: Final Page 1<br>> >=
; Problem: FinalProblem<br>> &g=
t; Problem: DummyProblem<br>> &=
gt;<br>> > Page: Final Page 2<br>> &nb=
sp; > Problem: FinalProblem <=
--- Setting PPRM at this point<br>> > &nb=
sp; Problem: DummyProblem<br>> ><br>> &=
nbsp; > Using Parameter Helper Mode, I set Due date to 6/18 and Open dat=
e<br>> to 6/6<br>> > at the Final Revi=
ew folder level. I set some earlier page<br>> individual D=
ue<br>> > Dates using Parameter Overview mode (on Final=
Page 2, for example).<br>> > Lastly, as part of playin=
g around I set Content Due Date at the Final<br>> > Rev=
iew folder level using the PPRM screen.<br>> ><br>> =
> Looking at the PPRM screen for a FinalProblem, I see Con=
tent Open date<br>> > and Content Due date. The Content=
Due Date Current Session Value is<br>> > blank; it doe=
s not show the effect of the Due date which I set at the<br>> &nb=
sp; > Final Review folder level, and the Content Open date shows the val=
ue I<br>> > set at the Enclosing Map Folder level ("Fin=
al Review").<br>> ><br>> > In the P=
PRM screen there is no other indication of Open Date or Due<br>> =
> Date. So, it appears that I can only set Open/Due dates from th=
e<br>> > Menu/Parameter Settings tools, not from PPRM. =
On the other hand, the<br>> > Open date does not seem t=
o be taking effect for some reason.<br>> ><br>> &nbs=
p; > And as I indicated, the student sees no indication of an ope=
n<br>> date, and<br>> > can open and a=
nswer the problem today. I guess I don't really care<br>> =
about<br>> > the ContentOpen and Due date (other than w=
ondering what the heck they<br>> > are); what I really =
need is to know why the Open date isn't having an<br>> >=
; effect.<br>> ><br>> > Thanks,<br>=
> > brew<br>> > lon-capa-users-admi=
n@mail.lon-capa.org wrote: -----<br>> ><br>> =
> To: lon-capa-users@mail.lon-capa.org<br>> &nbs=
p; > From: "Justin Gray" <jgray@math.sfu.ca><=
br>> > Sent by: lon-capa-users-admin@mail=
.lon-capa.org<br>> > Date: 06/02/2008 03:=
46PM<br>> > Subject: Re: [LON-CAPA-users]=
Open date versus Contentopen?<br>> ><br>> &n=
bsp; > Hi Brew,<br>> ><br>> =
> I believe you can set the individual due dates fr=
om a single<br>> screen<br>> > =
at Parameter Manager -> Overview Mode<br>> > =
(Select Parameter Level at Resource Level and select the encl=
osing<br>> > folder that you want. Then s=
elect only Problem Due Date from the<br>> > &nbs=
p; table of parameters.)<br>> ><br>> &=
gt; If students can see the due dates, I believe the problems=
<br>> should be<br>> > o=
pen. If your folder contains only problems, what you want to<br>> =
set is<br>> > Problem Opening Dat=
e. Content Opening Date does not seem to<br>> apply to<br>=
> > problems.<br>> ><=
br>> > It is a good idea to assign yourse=
lf a dummy student role in your<br>> > co=
urse, so that you can see what your students see. It is<br>> &nbs=
p; better to<br>> > do this using a diffe=
rent account since you will sometimes have<br>> >  =
; additional privileges that other students do not when you are<br>&=
gt; logged<br>> > in as you=
rself. You can do this as follows:<br>> ><br>>  =
; > 1) Go to Manage Course Users -> Enroll a sin=
gle student<br>> > 2) Add a dummy usernam=
e<br>> > 3) Select Internally authenticat=
ed and add a dummy password<br>> ><br>>  =
; > Note that any parameters set at the section level will=
not<br>> apply to<br>> >  =
; this dummy student if no section is assigned.<br>> ><=
br>> > Justin<br>> ><=
br>> > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:21 AM, &=
lt;Robert=5FBrewington@er.monroe.edu<br>> > &nbs=
p; <<a href=3D"mailto:Robert=5FBrewington@er.monroe.edu">mailto:Robert=
=5FBrewington@er.monroe.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>> ><b=
r>> > I am trying to set so=
me dates on a series of problems, and<br>> have<br>> &n=
bsp; > a couple of questions.<br>>=
><br>> > =
1) I have 50 questions in a folder. I set the due date for the<br>> &nbs=
p; > entire folder to Jun13. Now, I w=
ant to set the due dates for<br>> >  =
; problems 1-5 to be Jun10, 6-12 to Jun11, 13-25 to Jun 12.<br>> =
><br>> > I=
s there a way to set these through a single screen? I am<br>> &nb=
sp; > setting each problem individually, whi=
ch is a lot of slow<br>> > =
screens. Just a convenience issue...<br>> ><br>> &nb=
sp; > 2) I am not seeing the Opendate=
. I set the Open date for a<br>> > =
folder, then a bunch of due dates for the problems. The<br>> &nb=
sp; student<br>> > s=
ees the due dates, but the Open date doesn't seem to<br>> =
apply (for<br>> > my Chemis=
try course). What else do I set to make the open<br>> date=
work?<br>> ><br>> > =
I also tried setting something called contentopen from the<br=
>> pprm<br>> > &n=
bsp; screen, for the enclosing folder. What is this supposed to be?<br>>=
> It also does not seem to af=
fect the student's view of the<br>> > &nb=
sp; problem opening.<br>> ><br>>  =
; > I note that the opendate does not appear=
in the PPRM parameter<br>> > &nbs=
p; screen? I guess I'm just note sure what I am seeing...<br>> &n=
bsp; ><br>> > Thanks,<br=
>> > brew<br>> &n=
bsp; ><br>> > =5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F LON-CAPA-users<br=
>> > mailing list LON-CAPA-=
users@mail.lon-capa.org<br>> > &nb=
sp;<br>> <<a href=3D"mailto:LON-CAPA-users@mail.lon-cap=
a.org">mailto:LON-CAPA-users@mail.lon-capa.org</a>><a href=3D"http://mai=
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ilman/listinfo/lon-capa-users</a><br>> ><br>> =
><br>> ><br>> ><br>> =
> --<br>> >  =
; ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>> &nbs=
p; > Justin Gray<br>> > =
Dept. of Mathematics<br>> > Simon =
Fraser University<br>> > 8888 University =
Drive<br>> > Burnaby, B.C. V5A 1S6<br>>=
; > Canada<br>> > =
Tel. +1 778-782-4237<br>> > Fax. =
+1 778-782-4947<br>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>> ><br>&g=
t; ><br>> ><br>> >=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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man/listinfo/lon-capa-users">http://mail.lon-capa.org/mailman/listinfo/lon-=
capa-users</a><br>> <br>> -- <br>> Dr.=
Todd Ruskell<br>> Senior Lecturer, Department of Physics =
Office: Meyer Hall 326<br>> Col=
orado School of Mines &nbs=
p; Phone: 303-384-2080<br>> 1523 Illinois St=
reet =
Fax: 303-273-3919<br>> Golden, CO 80401<br>&=
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ce: Meyer Hall 326<br>Colorado School of Mines &=
nbsp; Phone: 303-384-2080<br>1523=
Illinois Street &n=
bsp; Fax: 303-273-3919<br>Golden, CO 80401<br>=5F=5F=
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